Posts by IT Support

67

What Do You Think Rutherford's Last Words Were???

by minimus in

jw
friends

Tertiary education

by Spanners in

hi, my sister is a jw and last year was her final year of secondary school (17/18 years old over here), she received the prize for best student overall in the whole school.

she's always wanted to go to university and become a lawyer and now since becoming a jw has changed her mind and is working in a restaurant clearing tables.

which is a bit of a joke, because she'll end up stuck in that job for the next 30 years.. she doesnt want to go to university because "armageddon is coming soon so theres no point".

IT Support

A while ago, someone posted here his notes from the 'Hope and Endurance' (?) circuit assembly.

He said they came down very hard on education. They stated that when a child goes to college the Society loses the kid to the world. So the only logical solution is to do all we can to prevent these kids from going to college and getting a career.

75

First Post

by 5thGeneration in

jw
friends

some things confuse me here.

i am in the same position as many where i don't agree with so much the society says and feel stuck dragging myself to the meetings and then feel incredible guilt because the study for the day says it is wrong to have any doubts "even in private".

impossible for me!.

IT Support

5G,

Some things confuse me here.

Perhaps because this is a very open forum, and once people leave 'the truth' they explore an enormously wide spectrum of new beliefs. Some you may agree with, others less so!

I am in the same position as many where I don't agree with so much the Society says and feel stuck dragging myself to the meetings

I think a lot of us here have been in that same position. We had to get OUT as quickly as possible. The only restraint was the efeect it would have on family and friends, so instead of being able to just say 'I'm off,' we had to work out a way to leave but causing minimal disruption.

and then feel incredible guilt because the study for the day says it is wrong to have any doubts "even in private". Impossible for me!

The Society are masters of manipulation in guilt. There are a thousand-and-one things they'll make you feel guilty for. Since they're an international bookselling corporation in the guise of an apostate Christian religion, there's no genuine love and so guilt is the only lever they have to control their members.

How do many of you personally blaspheme Jehovah?

I guess the blasphemy is optional! If you still believe in God (as I did when I left, but don't now), your actions will still be dictated by how you believe He wants you to act. But one of the hardest things when exiting the WT is learning to genuinely respect others' beliefs and not to be critical of them. As JWs, it was drummed into us that only we had 'the Truth,' only we followed God's laws properly, only we had a proper understanding of the Bible and everyone else is wrong, worldly, wicked, soon to be exterminated at Armageddon. That does tend to produce a rather self-righteous attitude in JWs!

I want to leave the Society

Well done! You've taken the first steps to freedom...

but I still believe in Jehovah, and also that doctrinally we are still the closest to the truth in my mind.

.. but you still have a lot of study and research ahead of you!

Welcome, stick around and you'll learn a lot.

As a matter of interest, what caused you to start questioning the Society?

41

Campaign to stop pro-JW documentary

by Grace in

jw
friends

i have been concerned since i read on a couple of posts about the pro-jw documentary which is in the works to be publicly aired on pbs.

this is the website: http://www.knocking.org.

i studied the website, and it looks extremely favorable to watchtower.

IT Support

Thanks, jgnat.

However, that form has a limit of 500 characters! This is what I wrote to Tom and Joel:

Hi,
I came across your web site www.knocking.org and am extremely concerned about the unrealistic and one-sided--dare I say, ' sanitized '-- view of the Witnesses that you appear to be portraying . Your web site states that your documentary is federally funded , intended for national broadcast on PBS in 2006. I would seriously urge you, in the interests of public safety, to reconsider your view of the Watchtower religion and see through their promotional 'spin' to recognize they are not as benign as they like to portray.
What Are The Real Issues?
Civil liberties
You r web site (http://www.knocking.org/issues.html) state s , "Jehovah's Witnesses h ave gone before the U.S. Supreme Court 46 times, more than any other group. Their 37 wins set Constitutional precedents ranging from free speech and assembly to equal protection." This is t r ue and the Watchtower Society is to be justifiably congratulated for this record.
Less laudably, however, the Watchtower Society daily abuses the human rights of literally thousands of its members. It denies current members the right of free speech by forbidding them from speaking to former members , even if they are close family members . And it denies former members their right of freedom of worship by refusing to allow them to leave the religion with dignity, should they come to disagree with Watchtower's practices or doctrines.
Holocaust
Your web site states, "German Jehovah's Witnesses went door-to-door speaking out against Hitler. For their noncompliance to the Nazi State, they were arrested, their books burned and printing presses destroyed. They were among the first put in the concentration camps..." This is true. The integrity, decency and bravery of many individual Jehovah's Witnesses, and their refusal to cooperate with Nazism, deserves the highest praise.
Sadly, however, the same cannot be said for the Watchtower organization, which tried to play power politics with Adolf Hitler. At first, J. F. Rutherford (President of the Watchtower Society) tried to ingratiate the movement with the Nazis. When that failed, he called on the Witnesses to go from door-to-door (while under total ban) playing phonographs and selling Watchtower literature. In addition, he had the Witnesses distribute extremely anti-Nazi leaflets all over Germany, which was simply insane. When one Witness was caught, all the Gestapo had to do was beat him or her to a pulp and find out who else was involved in the distribution. Quite unnecessarily, then, many ended up in the concentration camps who otherwise might have escaped. While the role of Nazi state can never be excused and was the direct cause of Witnesses' suffering, Rutherford himself deliberately provoked the state and must be held, at the very least, indirectly responsible for the consequences.
Medicine
You r web site state s, "Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept blood transfusions based on an interpretation of the Bible that blood is sacred." That is indeed the public justification they give for this policy. Even if it was true, their Biblical interpretation is based on selected phrases, taken out of context, misinterpreted and given an added twist of hyperbole.
What the Watchtower Society does not publici z e, however, is how much suffering their changing medical policies have caused over the years. For example, starting around 1921, they repeatedly condemned the use of vaccinations, considering them un scriptural, "a crime," "devilish," and they were sometimes likened to rape. They dogmatically stated that "Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood." The prohibition was not reversed until 1952. M ore recently, organ transplants were permitted up until 1967, when they were suddenly deemed "cannibalistic." That ban was lifted in 1980.
In the early 1940s, blood transfusions were spoken of favorably i n their publications , but were then banned in 1945. In 1954, the policy was clarified to specifically forbid the acceptance of blood fractions along with whole blood. This changed in 1958 when limited use of blood fractions was permitted: gamma globulin and blood serum for diphtheria inoculation. Such blood fractions were again banned in 1961 and then unbanned in 1964. One-by-one, over the years since, most 'minor' fractions have been allowed.
A major problem is that t he Watchtower Society has used medical--not Scriptural--arguments to weave such a complex set of rules and exceptions that it leaves the average Jehovah's Witness baffled as to which blood components are 'permitted' and which are not. The consequence, however, is that today these Pharisaical regulations would actually permit a Jehovah's Witness, if they only realised, to accept a cocktail of blood fractions that would satisfy the most unsympathetic surgeon. Thus , it is in correct that Jehovah's Witnesses do not now accept blood transfusions.
Now, it must be acknowledged that blood transfusion carries risks and the whole community will potentially benefit from advances in bloodless surgery, often 'guinea-pigged' by Jehovah's Witnesses. But at what price? The Watchtower Society has admitted that thousands of their members have died while obeying their changing prohibitions on blood , misguidedly believing they were doing God's will . They have never published the numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses killed or severely harmed by their vacillating policies on vaccination and organ transplants. No doubt the family of the last Jehovah's Witness to die for want of an organ transplant was extremely upset when the ban was rescinded, as it meant their relative had died in vain, from following men's commands not God's.
In March 1998 the Watchtower Society reached an amicable settlement with the Bulgarian government and the European Commission on Human Rights (which operates under the authority of the World Court) that Jehovah's Witnesses in Bulgaria would be permitted free choice over whether or not to accept blood, "without any control or sanction." In every other country in the world, a Jehovah's Witness who voluntarily accepts a blood transfusion "must be cut off from God's people by excommunication or disfellowshiping... As a rebellious opposer and unfaithful example to fellow members of the Christian congregation he must be cut off therefrom by disfellowshiping." The ex-Jehovah's Witness is then shunned by their Jehovah's Witness family and friends. Thus, as a consequence of this settlement, either (a) the Watchtower Society had one policy for Bulgaria and another for the rest of the world, or (b) the Watchtower Society committed perjury before the European Commission on Human Rights, and Bulgarian Jehovah's Witnesses would continue to be disfellowshipped for accepting a blood transfusion. Amazingly, in April 1998 the Watchtower Society's Public Affairs Office in New York issued a press release stating that "The terms of the agreement do not reflect a change in the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses." And in August 1998 the Watchtower Society stated, in reply to a question on the matter, that, "Each individual is responsible for his own choices in life and the repercussions of those choices... this may at times lead to the Scriptural action of disfellowshipping." It is clear the Watchtower Society ha d no intention of honoring their agreement with the Bulgaria n government and the European Commission on Human Rights. Bulgarian Witnesses will continue to be subject to "sanctions" and "control , " despite Watchtower's assurances to the contrary. Watchtower leaders are proved to be deceptive and have demonstrated that neither their word nor their sworn statements can be trusted .
There is one final medical matter that deserves attention. Medical professionals (and also lawyers and accountants) who are Jehovah's Witnesses are required to breach patient/client confidentiality if in their professional work they learn of a fellow Witness breaking Watchtower's rules. Thus the ludicrous situation could arise where a Jehovah's Witness doctor could be administering a blood transfusion in one room (permitted), and reports to the local church officials (' elders ') on a fellow Jehovah's Witness in the next room who is donating blood (forbidden) which he conscientiously feels obliged to do after accepting a transfusion of a ( permitted ) blood fraction.
Child abuse
All the above 'issues' pale into insignificance when compared with the Watchtower's criminal negligence in failing to properly care for children in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, which have resulted in Kingdom Halls around the world becoming pedophile havens. Individual Jehovah's Witnesses are generally decent, well-meaning--albeit misguided--individuals. However, Watchtower Society is a menace to society and its children.
The following has repeatedly taken place in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, which all strictly follow the policies laid down by their global headquarters in New York: -
Church rules require there to be two witnesses to the alleged child abuse before elders will take any disciplinary action. If there are not two witnesses and the alleged abuser denies the charge, he is considered innocent until proven guilty. This works to the pedophile's advantage since he's highly unlikely to hang around for another witness to appear before molesting his victim.

Even when the abuser confesses what he has done during internal tribunals, he is given complete anonymity within the congregation and the elders will only report this to the authorities when compelled by state laws : e ven then, they have repeatedly broken these reporting laws. Where such laws do not exist, the pedophiles are usually shielded by the elders, acting directly on the instructions of Watchtower's Legal and Service Departments.

If there were not two witnesses to the alleged abuse incident, the elders will have decided the accused is 'innocent' and parents of molested children are threatened with expulsion from the congregation--and total shunning by Jehovah's Witness family and friends--if they try to warn other members whose children may be in danger. The parents of a victim are required to follow the direction of the elders and trust their judgment of the matter. The 'reproach' of the congregation is turned into 'reproach' on God and provides the basis to keep parents from going outside the congregation for assistance. If a parent does go to the police, they are usually advised not to disclose what religion they are, so as to not bring 'reproach' on God's name. This can hinder police investigations by not giving them complete information . C ongregation members will often impede a police investigation, to protect a person the elders have already deemed 'innocent.'

While elders are usually instructed by Watchtower to remain neutral when it comes to reporting an incident of child abuse to the police, in reality, i f a parent of a victim reports their Jehovah's Witness abuser to the police, they--the parent and the victim--are often shunned and abandoned by the rest of the congregation for 'bringing reproach on the congregation.'

The child victims have been blamed for 'allowing it to happen.' A lthough Watchtower claims they support victims of child abuse and help them seek treatment, in reality Jehovah's Witnesses is a closed society that thinks everyone outside the organization is a part of Satan's world and will soon be destroyed by God at Armageddon. This reinforces the Jehovah’s Witness mentality that any time you go outside the organization, you should not trust what you are told because the help you obtain is ultimately from Satan. Thus a Watchtower letter to elders states that therapy could be sought for molestation victims if it was "in harmony with Bible principles." This implies victims would need to approach a therapist and demand that any guidance given must be in complete harmony with the Watchtower's interpretation of the Bible.

Elders themselves have absolutely no training in guidance, therapy or counseling when it comes to child molestation issues, and are specifically advised against getting any such training. They are told they "are spiritual shepherds only." The admonition was to listen, read a scripture, and say a prayer -- and that should be sufficient. Their attitude was that some things would not be solved until after Armageddon--when, they believe, God will transform the earth into a global paradise--and anyone with problems should learn to endure till then. Troubled victims are advised to cope by reading the Bible, praying, being regular at church meetings and participate more in their door-to-door ministry.

Even when local elders know a pedophile is present within their congregation, they take no steps to warn other parents of the danger in their midst. Watchtower's Service Department requires elders to maintain absolute confidentiality with all judicial matters--if a concerned elder breaches this to protect other children in the congregation, he risks being removed as an elder. There have been occasions when elders stopped their own children from being around 'known' pedophiles, while the children of other members of the congregation--because they were not told of the pedophile's past--were molested.

When someone is disciplined by local congregation elders--for child abuse or any other breach of Bible law--a record is kept in the congregation's confidential file and a copy is sent to Watchtower's Legal Department. These files contain thousands of crimes that have never been reported to police, and never will be, because Watchtower claims 'ecclesiastical privilege,' allowing thousands of child molesters to escape prosecution.

A pedophile can serve as an elder--or any other position of responsibility--in a congregation even if convicted by a court of law. In fact, this protection for a pedophile extends so far that if any Jehovah’s Witness disagrees with this policy, then that person can be deemed to be 'causing divisions' and can be disfellowshipped from the congregation and shunned .

When the pedophile moves from one congregation to another, the elders are supposed to send a letter to the new congregation telling them of that person's past. However, only the elders in the new congregation know this information. No one else within the congregation can be informed of the pedophile's presence, not even the elders' wives. This can be a real danger for children, putting them into contact with a confessed or convicted pedophile.

If a pedophile is expelled from the congregation, he may be reinstated again after as little as six months. He only has to convince the local elders he is 'repentant,' and he is back in among the children.

Jehovah's Witness pedophiles are expected to engage in their door-to-door 'preaching,' just like every other member of the congregation. The primary purpose of this 'preaching' is to start home Bible studies with members of the public. If a Jehovah's Witness pedophile starts a home Bible study with a family who has children, the Watchtower Society has no policies or protocols to monitor what is happening or to prevent further abuse. There have been occasions where a molester started a home Bible study with people that showed interest in the Jehovah's Witness religion, and then molested their children.
Thus, when you -- or your child -- opens the door to Jehovah's W itness es , how are you to know if it is a pedophile 'knocking' at your door? As Australia's Graham Davis, an award-winning investigator with the 'Sunday' TV program on channel NineMSN, concluded in his report on May 29, 2005:
"A two-witness standard of proof, derisory punishment, routine forgiveness for acts of contrition — the Jehovah's Witnesses are truly a magnet for paedophiles."

Please, people deserve to be told the truth. I hope this information may be of assistance in helping you to present a more realistic and balanced view of Jehovah's Witnesses. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require documentary evidence for anything above.
Regards,
Ken Smith
--
"It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false... it is a public service..." The Watchtower 11/15/63 p. 688 par. 3
References
Official Watchtower child abuse policy
Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection
Jehovah's Witness sexual abuse victims support
www.silentlambs.org

The Worldwide Problem of Child Abuse and Jehovah's Witnesses
Some recent TV programs reporting Watchtower's pedophile problems
USA: NBC Dateline, 'Witness for the Prosecution' May 28, 2002: http://www.silentlambs.org/education/dateline_trans.cfm

Germany: RBB Kontraste, 'Protecting the Perpetrator Comes First' June 20, 2002: http://cache.rbb-online.de/_/kontraste/beitrag_jsp/key=rbb_beitrag_1177458.html

Great Britain: BBC Panorama, 'Suffer the Little Children' July 14, 2002: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/2114320.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/2119903.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/live_forums/2124808.stm

USA: CNN Connie Chung , August 14, 2002: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/14/cct.00.html

Slovenia: POPTV Preverjeno, September 3, 2002: http://www.silentlambs.org/education/SloveniaTranscript.cfm

Australia: NineMSN Sunday, 'Silent Witnesses' September 22, 2002: http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/article_1149.asp http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/transcript_1149.asp

Denmark: DTV 2 , 'Silent Children' November 24, 2002: http://www.silentlambs.org/education/DenmarkTranscript.cfm

Canada: CBC Fifth Estate, 'Spiritual Shepherds' January 29, 2003: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/archives02-03.html http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw140.html

Germany: WDR, 'The End of Silence' February 16, 2003: http://www.wdr.de/tv/gottunddiewelt/vorschau/sendungen/ende_des_schweigens_160203.phtml http://www.wdr.de/tv/gottunddiewelt/aktuell/links/ende_des_schweigens_160203_index.phtml http://www.silentlambs.org/education/GermanWDRTranscript.cfm

USA: CBS News, 'Jehovah's Witnesses Under Fire' April 29, 2003: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/29/eveningnews/main551557.shtml http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/videoplayer/newVid/small_player/cbsnews_videoplayer.shtml?clip=/media/2003/04/29/video551572.rm&sec=500251&vidId=500251&title=Jehovahs$@$Witnesses$@$Under$@$Fire&hitboxMLC=i_video

Sweden: STV Mission-Investigate, 'Do Jehovah's Witnesses Protect Pedophiles?' May 12, 2003: http://www.svt.se/granskning/reportage.asp?S=3122&A=3122 http://www.svt.se/granskning/reportage.asp?S=2993&A=2993 http://www.silentlambs.org/education/SwedenMassacre.htm http://www.silentlambs.org/SwedenResponse.htm

Australia: NineMSN Sunday, ' Silent lambs ' May 29, 2005: http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/article_1789.asp http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/transcript_1789.asp http://www.wtmedia.org/Silent_Lambs_29_May_05.wmv

I don't think that would quite fit into 500 characters!

41

Campaign to stop pro-JW documentary

by Grace in

jw
friends

i have been concerned since i read on a couple of posts about the pro-jw documentary which is in the works to be publicly aired on pbs.

this is the website: http://www.knocking.org.

i studied the website, and it looks extremely favorable to watchtower.

IT Support

Has anyone had a reply to their emails?

I emailed both Tom and Joel but haven't yet heard from them.

Could any of you guys in the US tell me who in PBS should I email, to compain about this biased programming?

Thanks.

18

Did Genesis indicate literal creation days?

by M.J. in

the wts and others say the 6 days of creation in genesis are symbolic of longer time periods, while many others insist that a proper (and uncompromising) exegis reveals literal days.

i have a hunch that the author literally meant what he wrote.

the jw counter-argument to this is that genesis was written by moses and moses wrote psalm 90, which reads in part (v4):.

IT Support

Aren't the Genesis accounts of creation metaphorical (whether or not they were intentionally written that way)?

I'd have thought that discussing the length of the creative 'days' would be about as useful as trying to decide the type of clouds Wordswoth had in mind as he wandered through his field of daffodils.

13

Where can I read the history of the WTBS? Russell, Rutheford, etc....

by Buck in

jw
friends

is there an authorized book?

is there a website that has really good, accurate info.

iam not looking for something that just smears the history.

IT Support

Apocalypse Delayed: Story of Jehovah's Witnesses by Dr James M. Penton

Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich: Sectarian Politics Under Persecution by Dr James M. Penton

7

37 Tricks Anyone Can Use to Prove God Agrees with Them

by IT Support in

.

it's scary how many are used by wt:

http://www.jesus21.com/content/faith/index.php?s=bible_believing_tricks

IT Support

It's scary how many are used by WT:

http://www.jesus21.com/content/faith/index.php?s=bible_believing_tricks

16

My Mother

by funes in

jw
friends

i was disfellowshipped when i was 16, it really isn't clear because i stopped going to meetings, left home, etc.

i was 28 before i truly stopped believing and have grown to love every day of life i've had the privilege to live.

my mother was a missionary, my brother lives at one of the farms, one of my sisters is a special pioneer overseas and my other sister is a special pioneer in the states.. .

IT Support

Quotes,

It is interesting to note that in the past the WTS published a story where someone became a JW and was shunned by their Catholic family; the WTS implied (correctly) that this is an unloving act, and demonstrates a fundammentally unloving religion. Put the shoe on the other foot, WTS. It fits you perfectly.

Is this the WT quote you were thinking of?

*** yb88 p. 100 Ireland ***
However, the antipathy toward Jehovah’s people and the resistance to their work was still deep-seated. Later that same year in a local Limerick newspaper, the following appeal was made to Catholic readers:

"We appeal most earnestly to any person who may be accosted by representatives of the Society [Jehovah’s Witnesses] to have nothing to do with their propaganda and to refuse firmly to enter into any discussions with them. Any copies of their publications which readers may have acquired should be destroyed immediately. So strongly does the Church wish us to shun their evil doctrines that any Catholic who reads publications of the Society leaves himself open to excommunication. Ireland’s heritage of Faith, retained through centuries of persecution, is not to be bartered for a mess of Brooklyn pottage."

7

My mother and my son

by funes in

jw
friends

i was disfellowshipped when i was 16, it really isn't clear because i stopped going to meetings, left home, etc.

i was 28 before i truly stopped believing and have grown to love every day of life i've had the privilege to live.

my mother was a missionary, my brother lives at one of the farms, one of my sisters is a special pioneer overseas and my other sister is a special pioneer in the states.. .

IT Support

Welcome, funes.

Is it true that the original elders have to be contacted?

Yes. As I recall, the usual procedure is that only the judicial committee that d/f you, can reinstate you. (Unless there are unusual circumstances, like the cong has been dissolved, etc.)

Could I do this at a distant congregation from my current home, to ease the eventual fade?

Yes. You would go to your local cong and tell them you were d/f at [xxx] cong and now want to be reinstated. Be very humble--ok, grovelling--and ask them what you need to do. They will tell you to have a 'Bible' study and start attending every meeting, and will also contact the original cong to let them know. After they deem sufficient time has passed, they will write a report to the original cong telling them what you are doing and that they now recommend your reinstatement. The original jc will decide whether or not to allow you to return.

I was baptized when I was 15 and left when I was 16. Does anyone know of a way to overturn or appeal a disfellowshipping? a baptism?

No way now to appeal your d/f. But it might be worthwhile reasoning with your mother that you wren't really baptized. You could remind her that the WT says your baptism is the most important day of your life and is far more serious even that marriage. Yet even WT counsels youths not to get married too early, and definitely not at 15 when a teenager has no real idea of what he is doing.

Things are so hazy in my memory from that period in my life, is there a procedure for requesting your disfellowshipping file? Any ideas?

You coulod try writing to Brooklyn and your original cong. (I've no idea whether they'd even bother replying.) But if you're trying to fade, it might not be too good an idea to give them your home address.